I used to post on a message board on AOL called This and That Too. Met one of my best online friend's there. After a couple years though, I got so sick of the petty squabbles that more or less would end up of each person accusing anyone who disagreed with them of lying. Try to use logic on a message board and you get called all sorts of interesting names. Most of which would never be used in polite company. Once in awhile I look at other message boards these days but rarely do I post.
Today I saw an interesting reminder of why, and I felt bad because I've actually met the girl under attack. The thread can be seen here:
https://forums.craigslist.org/?all=N&areaID=21&forumID=26
Look for the post titled "Frustrated" and follow the thread.
Now, I don't know the girl well, she's not a friend, we met a couple of times hiking in the park is all. She worked at a different location than I did (at least I would assume she did as I never saw her around Mammoth). I suspected it was her because her handle was actually the same as one of my emails--not stolen mind you, just when you go from Yellowstone to Dallas ynp2dfw makes a kinda cool email or message board handle. I'd say she has good taste! As to why that made me think it was her in particular...the last time we saw each other on the trail, we stopped to chat for a few minutes, and she mentioned that her boyfriend had gotten a job in Dallas.
I had gone on the board because when I looked at it a few days ago there were happy threads of people posting holiday pictures of their fur-babies. "This place can't be too bad!" was my thought. I'd gone back today intending to post some pictures of my darling Puck. Then I started reading recent threads.
Now, granted, the OP is no angel herself, getting upset and accusing people of not being able to read--although I see her point. People were constantly twisting what she had said, which has to get frustrating in itself. She had only posted the part of her story that frustrated her, but when she tried to add the little details about things she hadn't been upset about (for instance, explaining that she and the person she was to get the dog from had originally discussed an 8:30ish AM call in order to arrange a morning pick up, when her original post just said that the woman was to call her in the morning)--she is accused of changing her story or flat out lying.
Here's the basic run down on facts as I gathered reading through the thread, and I don't see anything in her story changing:
1) OP and her BF own a Truck (not explicitly mentioned in the first post)
2) Truck had been promised to be loaned to the BF's father to move furniture on the afternoon of the day in question, long before arrangements were made about the dog.
3) OP and BF are looking to add a dog to their home, and Craigslist is one of the places they have been looking.
4) OP had been arranging to pick up a doberman pup that was offered to her. Pup in question was Aprox 4 months old and had been found, malnourished, on the side of the road. OP aware that there could be behavior and health issues.
5) OP has experience with Dobermans (I think she mentioned owning one in the past but I cannot recall for certain)
6) OP and Woman With Dog (WWD from here on) had agreed that WWD would call OP around 8:30am (In the morning) to arrange a morning pick up.
7)WWD calls (or rather text-to-landline--which I didn't know existed) OP at 11:45 am with a message asking if 3o'clock would work. No mention of where.
8) Op returns call saying that 3 SHOULD work, but she is unsure and to please call her to make arrangements.
9) WWD Calls at 2:45. OP (or as I found out in email, OP's BF) explains to the woman that Dad isn't done with the truck, they don't know if they can get a hold of him right away, and that they will call her when they know anything, which may take awhile.
10)OP calls WWD back when they find out, leaves a message letting WWD know that they can meet her either that evening or the next day, message is left aprox 5pm. No call back. Op Calls again in morning, still no call back. OP calls again in late afternoon. Again, no returned call. As of 10am this morning, OP had still not heard anything.
I've read through the thread three times now, and I don't see where she changes anything, just explains details. Yet she is told that she is lying because her original post didn't mention a morning meeting, only a morning call. She is told that she is a 'flake' because she couldn't make the 3pm appointment that everyone claims had been set, even though she had never confirmed it. She points out several times that SHOULD work does not equal DOES work.
Another thing she is jumped on about is that she didn't call the woman back right away upon not being able to reach her BFs father. Now, I don't know about anyone else, but when someone tells me they're going to be awhile getting back to me, I don't expect a call within 5 minutes. Two hours when someone tells me they need to reach someone else (especially if I am told the other person is unsure about being able to reach them) seems perfectly reasonable. I would not consider them a flake, nor would I be upset about my time being wasted. Especially if I had already delayed the meeting once myself, as WWD had.
Some of the things she is jumped on are sheer attacks though, and the logic is odd at best.
1) She is pretty much told that she is trapped all day and a bad pet owner if her BF has their only vehicle all day and that she should get a second car before a second dog. Even after stating that she has no desire for a second car people keep on her. She explains that everything she needs is within walking distance--Doctors, Hospitals, Vets, Grocery, Pharmacy, etc.... and I know the trails this girl hikes back at the park, walking in town is going to be no problem for her!
So they tell her "So you're going to carry an 80lbs sick dog to the vet?"
Actually, if she could strap him to her back she probably could, hiking packs can get pretty heavy but that's a whole different topic. She patiently explains that if the dog was too sick to walk she would get a house call. Frankly that seems like the more responsible pet ownership to me. Lets see...drag sick dog out to car, then into an environment that is stressful for most dogs on a good day, vs have friendly vet come to the house, where the dog is comfortable and feels safe. Yep sounds good to me, and I've asked her to send me names of some local vets who will do that too (She had her vet from back home recommend a few that she knew of, I found out in the email)
2) She's crazy for looking for a dog on Craigslist and a horrible person for not looking at shelter or rescue dogs (along with the fallacy that you do not "LOOK AT" rescues, they MATCH you to a dog. Not always true. Most rescues post pictures of their available dogs, along with a back story of them, and then you apply. If you and the dog are a match, then you go from there).
According to the posters berating this girl:
*All people on Craigslist lie about their dog.
*Getting a dog from a shelter or rescue is an absolute guarantee of health and temperament
*Any dog this girl gets from Craigslist will have many many problems and she will absolutely have to hire a trainer and behaviorist.
Let me speak from experience here. I've had dogs from shelters/rescues, dogs from craigslist, and dogs that I or a friend have just found abandoned. In fact I still have a dog from each of those categories. Well my mom has two of them.
Chloe, 2 yrs old, from shelter/rescue:
Lives with mom
She's the black one. The brown one is Imhotep, my soon-to-be-ex husband's dog.
What we were told
A little nervous but that if we worked with her, she would be fine. She only barks when she first meets someone and warms up to them quickly if they pick her up and cuddle her.
Shelter/Rescue adoption process
Fill out this one page form, give us the rabies tag numbers of your other dogs so that we know you vaccinate, give us the almighty money. There ya go, dog is yours. Process took less than an hour.
Now granted this was a local humane society and I know most rescues do more than that.
The Reality
Chloe has been with my mother for over a year now (possibly 2--so she might be three years old now, I'm not sure lol).The ONLY people she has warmed up to are the immediate family, the housekeeper, one cousin who spends most of her time at the house, and my best friend who was with us when we got her. Anyone else is snapped at, growled at, and barked at the entire time they are in the house, even if mom puts Chloe in another room. If any dog I have ever met needed a behaviorist, its Chloe. Of course, after my cousin's damn dog attacked her, she needs it even more, and now mom just babies her that much worse....
Grim, 5 yrs old, found by a friend after being literally kicked out of a car at McDonalds
Lives with mom
Today I saw an interesting reminder of why, and I felt bad because I've actually met the girl under attack. The thread can be seen here:
https://forums.craigslist.org/?all=N&areaID=21&forumID=26
Look for the post titled "Frustrated" and follow the thread.
Now, I don't know the girl well, she's not a friend, we met a couple of times hiking in the park is all. She worked at a different location than I did (at least I would assume she did as I never saw her around Mammoth). I suspected it was her because her handle was actually the same as one of my emails--not stolen mind you, just when you go from Yellowstone to Dallas ynp2dfw makes a kinda cool email or message board handle. I'd say she has good taste! As to why that made me think it was her in particular...the last time we saw each other on the trail, we stopped to chat for a few minutes, and she mentioned that her boyfriend had gotten a job in Dallas.
I had gone on the board because when I looked at it a few days ago there were happy threads of people posting holiday pictures of their fur-babies. "This place can't be too bad!" was my thought. I'd gone back today intending to post some pictures of my darling Puck. Then I started reading recent threads.
Now, granted, the OP is no angel herself, getting upset and accusing people of not being able to read--although I see her point. People were constantly twisting what she had said, which has to get frustrating in itself. She had only posted the part of her story that frustrated her, but when she tried to add the little details about things she hadn't been upset about (for instance, explaining that she and the person she was to get the dog from had originally discussed an 8:30ish AM call in order to arrange a morning pick up, when her original post just said that the woman was to call her in the morning)--she is accused of changing her story or flat out lying.
Here's the basic run down on facts as I gathered reading through the thread, and I don't see anything in her story changing:
1) OP and her BF own a Truck (not explicitly mentioned in the first post)
2) Truck had been promised to be loaned to the BF's father to move furniture on the afternoon of the day in question, long before arrangements were made about the dog.
3) OP and BF are looking to add a dog to their home, and Craigslist is one of the places they have been looking.
4) OP had been arranging to pick up a doberman pup that was offered to her. Pup in question was Aprox 4 months old and had been found, malnourished, on the side of the road. OP aware that there could be behavior and health issues.
5) OP has experience with Dobermans (I think she mentioned owning one in the past but I cannot recall for certain)
6) OP and Woman With Dog (WWD from here on) had agreed that WWD would call OP around 8:30am (In the morning) to arrange a morning pick up.
7)WWD calls (or rather text-to-landline--which I didn't know existed) OP at 11:45 am with a message asking if 3o'clock would work. No mention of where.
8) Op returns call saying that 3 SHOULD work, but she is unsure and to please call her to make arrangements.
9) WWD Calls at 2:45. OP (or as I found out in email, OP's BF) explains to the woman that Dad isn't done with the truck, they don't know if they can get a hold of him right away, and that they will call her when they know anything, which may take awhile.
10)OP calls WWD back when they find out, leaves a message letting WWD know that they can meet her either that evening or the next day, message is left aprox 5pm. No call back. Op Calls again in morning, still no call back. OP calls again in late afternoon. Again, no returned call. As of 10am this morning, OP had still not heard anything.
I've read through the thread three times now, and I don't see where she changes anything, just explains details. Yet she is told that she is lying because her original post didn't mention a morning meeting, only a morning call. She is told that she is a 'flake' because she couldn't make the 3pm appointment that everyone claims had been set, even though she had never confirmed it. She points out several times that SHOULD work does not equal DOES work.
Another thing she is jumped on about is that she didn't call the woman back right away upon not being able to reach her BFs father. Now, I don't know about anyone else, but when someone tells me they're going to be awhile getting back to me, I don't expect a call within 5 minutes. Two hours when someone tells me they need to reach someone else (especially if I am told the other person is unsure about being able to reach them) seems perfectly reasonable. I would not consider them a flake, nor would I be upset about my time being wasted. Especially if I had already delayed the meeting once myself, as WWD had.
Some of the things she is jumped on are sheer attacks though, and the logic is odd at best.
1) She is pretty much told that she is trapped all day and a bad pet owner if her BF has their only vehicle all day and that she should get a second car before a second dog. Even after stating that she has no desire for a second car people keep on her. She explains that everything she needs is within walking distance--Doctors, Hospitals, Vets, Grocery, Pharmacy, etc.... and I know the trails this girl hikes back at the park, walking in town is going to be no problem for her!
So they tell her "So you're going to carry an 80lbs sick dog to the vet?"
Actually, if she could strap him to her back she probably could, hiking packs can get pretty heavy but that's a whole different topic. She patiently explains that if the dog was too sick to walk she would get a house call. Frankly that seems like the more responsible pet ownership to me. Lets see...drag sick dog out to car, then into an environment that is stressful for most dogs on a good day, vs have friendly vet come to the house, where the dog is comfortable and feels safe. Yep sounds good to me, and I've asked her to send me names of some local vets who will do that too (She had her vet from back home recommend a few that she knew of, I found out in the email)
2) She's crazy for looking for a dog on Craigslist and a horrible person for not looking at shelter or rescue dogs (along with the fallacy that you do not "LOOK AT" rescues, they MATCH you to a dog. Not always true. Most rescues post pictures of their available dogs, along with a back story of them, and then you apply. If you and the dog are a match, then you go from there).
According to the posters berating this girl:
*All people on Craigslist lie about their dog.
*Getting a dog from a shelter or rescue is an absolute guarantee of health and temperament
*Any dog this girl gets from Craigslist will have many many problems and she will absolutely have to hire a trainer and behaviorist.
Let me speak from experience here. I've had dogs from shelters/rescues, dogs from craigslist, and dogs that I or a friend have just found abandoned. In fact I still have a dog from each of those categories. Well my mom has two of them.
Chloe, 2 yrs old, from shelter/rescue:
Lives with mom
What we were told
A little nervous but that if we worked with her, she would be fine. She only barks when she first meets someone and warms up to them quickly if they pick her up and cuddle her.
Shelter/Rescue adoption process
Fill out this one page form, give us the rabies tag numbers of your other dogs so that we know you vaccinate, give us the almighty money. There ya go, dog is yours. Process took less than an hour.
Now granted this was a local humane society and I know most rescues do more than that.
The Reality
Chloe has been with my mother for over a year now (possibly 2--so she might be three years old now, I'm not sure lol).The ONLY people she has warmed up to are the immediate family, the housekeeper, one cousin who spends most of her time at the house, and my best friend who was with us when we got her. Anyone else is snapped at, growled at, and barked at the entire time they are in the house, even if mom puts Chloe in another room. If any dog I have ever met needed a behaviorist, its Chloe. Of course, after my cousin's damn dog attacked her, she needs it even more, and now mom just babies her that much worse....
Grim, 5 yrs old, found by a friend after being literally kicked out of a car at McDonalds
Lives with mom
What we were told
"Hey I saw this dog get kicked out of a car at McDonalds as I was leaving work today. The owners just drove off and left her there!"
The Adoption Process:
"Do you want her? I can't keep her....Cool I'll be there with her in about 10 minutes"
The Reality
Grim is a great little dog. Spoiled rotten with a minor case of SDS, but more from mom and grandpa than where we got her. When we got her she had a lot of fleas and was slightly underfed. A trip to the vet cleared that up, and we got her fixed as soon as we were able.
Puck, 1.5 yrs old (though we're questioning that and have a vet appt set up), found for free on Craigslist:
Lives with Me
What we were told:
Puck is a rescue who needed a forever home. The lady we got her from had gotten her from a friend who had gotten her from a rescue. She's a year and a half old, fixed, well behaved, and mostly housebroken. She does still chew on things but if you give her her ball or a bone or rawhide she'll chew exclusively on those.
The adoption process:
3 phone calls and a meet up at 7-11 to bring her home.
The reality:
This is probably one of the BEST dogs I have ever owned. She doesn't jump, she doesn't bark, she obeys most commands (We finally mastered Shake the other day!) She doesn't pull on her leash usually (she does get freaked if some of the larger dogs in the area come around and will just about drag me back to the house if I don't stand firm). Plays well with most other dogs. We've had a couple of chewing incidents (always my stuff. Never AJs.....grrr.) and the last couple of weeks a couple of potty accidents but we are working on those and she's doing quite well. She doesn't chew the furniture (good thing since its rented!) or even get up on the couch or armchair. She does get in our bed to sleep when we're not in it, but I don't mind that. We did call the vet listed on her rabies tag to confirm her shots and her status as being fixed.
Now I realize these girls are each just one example, but they seem to be perfect examples of what I've found time after time. Another dog I used to own from Craigslist, a lab/beagle mix named Buster was an AMAZING dog. So have been many of the dogs my friends have gotten. Yes, I've seen some with issues too, but thats going to happen anywhere, just as a dog being from a shelter or rescue does NOT promise that they're perfect. Just like anywhere else, you do have to be careful. That goes for Shelters, Rescues, Breeders, AND Craigslist, and it certainly doesn't rule out any of them
Another thing they attacked her for was because it was a free dog they said she only wanted a free dog or that she didnt have proof from her landlord of being allowed to have a pet. Even after she stated that she was also looking at shelters and rescues (thats when she was told you don't look at rescues, they match you. Yes, they match you, after you LOOK at them and see if they have a dog you might like. I know I for one would not blindly let a shelter match me up with a dog unless it was one I was at least somewhat interested in, and I've seen rescues that charge you part of their fee before they match you. If none of their dogs are what you want, they keep the fee and your paperwork until they do have one. I'm hoping this is not how most rescues operate but it's what I found when helping a friend look into rescues for a breed she was interested in.
Frankly, the whole thread is crazy. People would not act like this face to face, or if they were held accountable. What has happened to social grace and tact? This was the girl's first time posting on the message board. They reamed her for it being "in the wrong place". It was about a trend she was seeing on the Pets ads for here in Fort Worth (something I've noticed as well actually), she clicked on the link provided on the pet ads for discussions. She narrowed it down to her hometown. Seems to me like that would be the right place. Anyway, her "Welcome" being as it was, she says she will not be posting there again, and frankly I will not be posting there either. I have to wonder how many other pet owners they've driven away that might have been seeking advice or even just to talk with other pet lovers, but upon seeing the hostility changed their mind?
